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on this episode of skeptic oh when I was

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watching one of your presentations you

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said you know what if I don't give you

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this protocol right now if I don't give

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this to you at least a little bit I

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would consider it medical malpractice as

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a clinical psychologist I know this is

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effective and you have to experience now

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that's awesome on the one hand of

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getting it out there but it also does

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bring into focus

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just how who out of a line we are in

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medicine and in clinical psychology

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let me quote you this is a direct quote

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from a veteran who took part in one of

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our studies in Miami and he said every

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intervention I've had to date to help me

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heal through my post-traumatic stress

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has always started with what's wrong

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with me and trying to show me what's

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wrong with me and how to fix and change

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what's wrong with me he said you're the

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first protocol you're the first

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intervention that has started with

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what's right about me and now that I

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know what's right about me I'm willing

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to face my worst nightmares

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welcome to skeptic Oh where we explore

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controversial science with leading

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researchers thinkers and their critics

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now you know from listening to this show

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that I love science and I love the

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logical rational reasonable approach to

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things but you can probably also tell

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that I'm trying to marry that with an

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approach to spirituality and engagement

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with spirituality if you will and along

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the way along the journey of skeptic Oh

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at the same time I've been pursuing

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spiritual practices as well but I have

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had this pull towards yoga for a long

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long time and it's been an amazing

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experience for me because it's taken me

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in a lot of different places beyond the

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practice of sitting there and doing

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these asanas and breathing and doing all

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that stuff so when I ran across the work

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of today's guest Richard Miller a lot of

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the ideas that he was talking about were

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not unfamiliar to me but at the same

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time I found somebody who was really

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putting some of these things together in

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a new and powerful way and as I say in

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the interview I was just drawn to him

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because I listened to one of his

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lectures and it immediately seemed to

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work for me now as I say in the

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interview I've included that at the end

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of this show so give a listen to that I

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mixed it in with a little bit of

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meditative Creative Commons music and

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I'm including that at the end also have

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it as a separate download if you wanted

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if you find it useful so the exciting

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thing about Richard's work is it seems

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to work at least for people like me it's

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piling up a lot of points scientifically

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as well and of course as we've said so

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many times in this show there is really

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no way that this technique should pile

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up points scientifically there's no way

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in our therapeutic models that this

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should work if mind equals brain ah but

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that's another show for another time

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let's get on to my conversation with

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Richard Miller today we welcome dr.

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Richard Miller to skeptic Oh Richard is

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a clinical psychologist and

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founder of eye rest an organization that

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offers an integrated yogic healing

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practice that richard has developed over

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the years and this practice has been

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shown to be so effective in clinical

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trials that the United States military

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has adopted it for use in treating

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post-traumatic stress disorder in

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hundreds of military hospitals and

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clinics around the country now how

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Richard got the army to let yoga in the

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back door is just one of the many

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stories I hope we get into today before

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we get too much further Richard welcome

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to skeptic oh thanks so much for joining

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me good morning I like thanks for having

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me on your program delighted you know we

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both share a deep love and appreciation

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for yoga and even though I can't sit in

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full Lotus anywhere nearly as

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beautifully as you do when I was reading

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her bio I was struck by this early

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experience you had with yoga and I

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realized that we shared a very similar

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kind of first experience that I don't

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know how these things play themselves

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out I'm sure we can kind of have some

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ideas about that but maybe you could

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start by sharing that little story

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because I thought it was kind of

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interesting and speaks a lot to a lot of

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things that have happened in your life

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sure and just one beginning comment

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thank goodness it doesn't depend on our

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posture and Lotus and anything we do to

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be who we are we are just lovely beings

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however and wherever we are you know my

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first experience with yoga was quite

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accidental and quite profoundly

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transformative the story I shared with

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you and I first came to San Francisco I

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was looking to meet people and wandered

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into taking a yoga class with the

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thought that I might be able to meet

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some interesting people having never

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studied yoga before and as I walked into

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the first class it turned

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out that they decided to teach the

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12-week course in silence except for the

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teachers instruction so I wandered in

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the door and walked out each of the 12

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weeks never met anyone because

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everything was in silence from the

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moment I entered and left the the

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building but I like to say that first

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class at the end when the teacher was

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introducing us to a meditative form of

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what I now know is yoga nidra I had a

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profound experience where all sense of

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myself as separate dropped away

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unexpectedly and I found myself with a

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deep inner feeling of being in harmony

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and in tune with the entire universe and

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when I walked out and came home that

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night a deep kind of vow rose in my

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heart to try to understand one what just

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happened and to how might I nourish and

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propagate this profound understanding

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which lasted for some days and then

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slowly faded but what it did bring for

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me is a sense of coming home to myself

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in a way that I had never experienced

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before that moment a deep profound peace

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and just a celebration of homecoming I

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would say you know that's awesome and

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you are now speaking to a group of

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people that will resonate to that story

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at least some of that my audience will

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but like me some of them will also want

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to kind of jump over on this other side

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of bringing that down and want to

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struggle to pin that down to something

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more concrete something drugg wrap our

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arms around and one of the things that's

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interesting about you and your

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background is you embody that as well

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you embody that scientific background

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you're a clinical psychologist and as

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you were led through this journey that

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you rhond you were forced to bring a

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great deal of rigor and science to what

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you do in order to work with

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for example the United States military

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so you're someone a skilled researcher

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skilled clinical psychologists published

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some amazing results about this yogic

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meditation protocol that you've

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developed published it in peer-reviewed

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journals passed muster with some very

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tough-minded military folks who aren't

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willy-nilly about just letting people

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come in and do stuff to their soldiers

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can you tell us a little bit about that

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side of who you are and what you've

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brought in that area yes I grew up in a

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scientific medically oriented family my

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dad was a surgeon and we had long

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conversations about science and medicine

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as I grew up and I grew up in a way

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reading medical textbooks was on my way

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to go to medical school and realize that

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psychology was really my calling and

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ended up going into clinical psychology

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but along the way it occurred to me as I

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was studying the teachings of yoga and

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different approaches to spirituality

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that many of the readings were

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propagated on more or less a belief of

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trust me and as a scientifically

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oriented Westerner trust me doesn't

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really resonate so much with me I wanted

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to understand how does this actually

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work and so I started reading into the

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literature in the 70s and 80s and then

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in nineteen 2004 the military called me

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and asked if I would be interested in

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partaking in a study of my protocol with

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veterans and active duty coming back

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from the war front with PTSD so I said

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fantastic we entered into a study and as

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a result the results we got were so

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effective they hired the teacher that I

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had trained who was teaching in the

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study to teach the protocol to all

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returning

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wounded warriors through Walter Reed

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Army Medical Center if they opted for

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that option as part of their healing

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program particular study launched what I

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would never have imagined a whole series

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of studies so to date we've got over 25

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research studies that had been done from

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Walter Reed Miami VA Brooke Army Medical

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Center now we've got one about to start

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at Chicago VA we've had them at

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universities and different private

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settings so we've been studying how does

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this protocol actually affect things

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like post-traumatic stress chronic pain

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anxiety sleep disorders as well as

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propagate a deep inner sense of

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well-being so I'm glad to say I can now

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answer the question don't just trust me

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here are the results that we have that

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are statistically showing that this

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particular approach to meditation does

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work and here's what it does and can do

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for you and to date I've trained over

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3,000 teachers worldwide who are now

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bringing this into their different

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settings in North America Australia

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England Australia Germany so it's quite

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amazing to see how I think the science

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has propagated and helps support the

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coming home of this protocol into so

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many locations and and Richard just

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let's interject that that is through

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this organization that you've found it

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that people can find called arrest and

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that's where the training is kind of

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funneled through and where you've

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brought all this technology if you will

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to a focal point is that right it is

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true and and there's a funny story here

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when I first came to the military or

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they came to me they said would you

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change the name of your protocol which

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was back then called yoga nidra and they

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said we don't we don't do yoga we're

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military and yoga is for sissies

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actually one fella said to me and so I

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thought long and hard

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and trained changed the name to

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integrative restoration integrative

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because it integrates our psychology and

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our it gives us a grounded sense of self

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and restoration because it restores

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something to us that nevers capable of

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being heard or harmed that's always

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whole and then I thought of the acronym

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I rest a small eye because it's helping

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kind of put our ego in its rightful

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place and rest for restoration the

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military said that's fantastic we can do

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integrative restoration I rest but then

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at the end of the study after a few

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months they came back to me and they

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said you know we like what you're doing

277
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this is showing great results with our

278
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military or veterans so you can call it

279
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yoga knitter if you want so we've

280
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created the name integrative restoration

281
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I rest

282
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Yoga Nidra meditation that way we can go

283
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into military settings homeless shelters

284
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we're now working with women who've been

285
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rescued from human trafficking and we

286
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can call it integrative restoration that

287
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:42,720
has a nice secular ring to it but if I

288
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go into a yoga oriented group I can call

289
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it yoga nidra or if I go into a

290
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:50,550
meditation oriented group I can call it

291
00:13:56,060 --> 00:13:53,850
meditation so the long and the short is

292
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:56,070
we're trying to bring it to different

293
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groups showing that it's actually a

294
00:14:06,340 --> 00:14:04,380
secular program anybody can utilize it

295
00:14:09,290 --> 00:14:06,350
irregardless of their philosophical

296
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:09,300
religious or spherical spiritual stance

297
00:14:16,220 --> 00:14:13,010
it's really basically a series of

298
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inquiries that we make experiments that

299
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we make into who we are and how we

300
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:23,640
function and it's been shown now to heal

301
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:25,530
help heal things like post-traumatic

302
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:28,560
stress and anxiety and help people get a

303
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:30,720
good night's sleep now Richard I want

304
00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:32,850
folks to know that I watched one of your

305
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:35,480
videos oh I don't know a few months ago

306
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:38,490
where you gave a condensed version of

307
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this meditation protocol

308
00:14:45,410 --> 00:14:43,620
and personally I found it so powerful so

309
00:14:48,379 --> 00:14:45,420
meaningful useful whatever word you want

310
00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:48,389
to put there that I've incorporated it

311
00:14:53,150 --> 00:14:51,720
into my regular practice I actually mix

312
00:14:55,369 --> 00:14:53,160
it in full music and with your

313
00:14:56,569 --> 00:14:55,379
permission I'm going to play that at the

314
00:14:58,369 --> 00:14:56,579
end of this interview because there's

315
00:15:00,259 --> 00:14:58,379
really no there's no substitute for

316
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:00,269
talking about it then there is for

317
00:15:08,179 --> 00:15:04,050
hearing this and hearing just the little

318
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:08,189
unique ways that you have adapted you

319
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:10,410
know almost anyone out there is going to

320
00:15:17,689 --> 00:15:14,810
be familiar with some kind of meditation

321
00:15:20,059 --> 00:15:17,699
protocol if you will someone doing a

322
00:15:22,009 --> 00:15:20,069
guided meditation kind of thing but you

323
00:15:24,769 --> 00:15:22,019
do a couple of unique things in there

324
00:15:27,530 --> 00:15:24,779
that I want people to experience for

325
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:27,540
themselves and just see if it has any of

326
00:15:30,499 --> 00:15:29,040
these amazing effects that we're talking

327
00:15:32,449 --> 00:15:30,509
about so with your permission I will

328
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:32,459
play that at the end of this interview

329
00:15:38,319 --> 00:15:35,610
great I like I like what you're saying a

330
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:38,329
picture is worth a thousand words

331
00:15:42,619 --> 00:15:41,040
actually experiencing it is what we want

332
00:15:45,429 --> 00:15:42,629
we can talk till we're blue in the face

333
00:15:46,579 --> 00:15:45,439
but the experience is the most important

334
00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:46,589
okay

335
00:15:51,079 --> 00:15:48,870
so then let's switch gears for a minute

336
00:15:55,129 --> 00:15:51,089
because I hope by now you get the sense

337
00:15:57,170 --> 00:15:55,139
that I am with you man I am with the I'm

338
00:15:59,540 --> 00:15:57,180
supportive of what you're doing I want

339
00:16:02,420 --> 00:15:59,550
everyone to experience it because I

340
00:16:05,059 --> 00:16:02,430
think if you're at the right place in

341
00:16:07,009 --> 00:16:05,069
your life in your journey and your

342
00:16:09,139 --> 00:16:07,019
practice whatever this could be

343
00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:09,149
meaningful to you but now that I've said

344
00:16:15,980 --> 00:16:12,630
that I want to kind of pick at a couple

345
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:15,990
of things that I think interface with

346
00:16:21,019 --> 00:16:17,610
some of the topics we've talked about

347
00:16:23,689 --> 00:16:21,029
here on skeptic oh and I think our non

348
00:16:26,059 --> 00:16:23,699
at the back of the mind of me and other

349
00:16:28,579 --> 00:16:26,069
people who look at this stuff but of

350
00:16:29,689 --> 00:16:28,589
course go for great great great let's

351
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:29,699
start with this let's start with

352
00:16:35,929 --> 00:16:34,079
malpractice I love this that when I was

353
00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:35,939
watching one of your presentations one

354
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:37,529
of the things you started with in and I

355
00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:40,649
saw a certain animation to give certain

356
00:16:45,949 --> 00:16:42,569
energy to your talk you said you know

357
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:45,959
what if I don't give you this protocol

358
00:16:49,610 --> 00:16:47,850
right now if I don't give this to you at

359
00:16:52,309 --> 00:16:49,620
least a little bit I would consider it

360
00:16:53,750 --> 00:16:52,319
medical malpractice as a clinical

361
00:16:55,970 --> 00:16:53,760
psychologist I know

362
00:16:59,810 --> 00:16:55,980
this is effective and you have to

363
00:17:02,300 --> 00:16:59,820
experience now that's awesome on the one

364
00:17:05,659 --> 00:17:02,310
hand of getting it out there but it also

365
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:05,669
does bring into focus

366
00:17:13,329 --> 00:17:09,770
just how out of a line we are in

367
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:13,339
medicine and in clinical psychology with

368
00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:15,569
some of these kind of practices

369
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:18,240
techniques protocols whatever we want to

370
00:17:21,530 --> 00:17:19,650
talk about it so can you address that

371
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:21,540
from both angles of what you mean by

372
00:17:25,610 --> 00:17:23,520
malpractice I I think I got the first

373
00:17:28,010 --> 00:17:25,620
part right but correct it but the second

374
00:17:30,650 --> 00:17:28,020
part is you know you're not kind of

375
00:17:35,060 --> 00:17:30,660
likely to run into this if you just walk

376
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:35,070
into the the local clinical psychologist

377
00:17:42,020 --> 00:17:38,850
no let me quote you this is a direct

378
00:17:45,220 --> 00:17:42,030
quote from a veteran who took part in

379
00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:45,230
one of our studies in Miami and he said

380
00:17:51,740 --> 00:17:49,740
every intervention I've had to date to

381
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:51,750
help me heal through my post-traumatic

382
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:54,330
stress has always started with what's

383
00:17:59,450 --> 00:17:57,210
wrong with me and trying to show me

384
00:18:02,510 --> 00:17:59,460
what's wrong with me and how to fix and

385
00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:02,520
change what's wrong with me he said

386
00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:04,590
you're the first protocol you're the

387
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:07,620
first intervention that has started with

388
00:18:12,860 --> 00:18:10,799
what's right about me and now that I

389
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:12,870
know what's right about me I'm willing

390
00:18:19,220 --> 00:18:16,049
to face my worst nightmares but I

391
00:18:22,580 --> 00:18:19,230
realize now I'm not broken there's not

392
00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:22,590
something wrong with me there are things

393
00:18:30,830 --> 00:18:25,860
in my body in my mind that need changing

394
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:30,840
and fixing and helping but not me so and

395
00:18:35,780 --> 00:18:33,570
he also went on to say why didn't I get

396
00:18:37,159 --> 00:18:35,790
this when I first started this journey

397
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:37,169
of trying to heal my post-traumatic

398
00:18:44,110 --> 00:18:40,559
stress and I've heard this now countless

399
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:44,120
times from military soldiers veterans

400
00:18:50,030 --> 00:18:46,710
homeless all the different people that

401
00:18:53,419 --> 00:18:50,040
we work with what I'm trying to do right

402
00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:53,429
at the start is show people something

403
00:18:59,240 --> 00:18:55,110
about themselves something about

404
00:19:03,560 --> 00:18:59,250
ourselves all of us that's not broken

405
00:19:07,159 --> 00:19:03,570
can't be harmed has never been heard her

406
00:19:07,549 --> 00:19:07,169
harmed has always been whole so I'm

407
00:19:10,460 --> 00:19:07,559
trying

408
00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:10,470
to help people start from wholeness and

409
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:13,529
then look at what does need fixing or

410
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:16,110
changing but we're not trying to fix or

411
00:19:23,180 --> 00:19:19,440
change to become whole we're realizing

412
00:19:25,009 --> 00:19:23,190
we are whole we start from here and so

413
00:19:28,159 --> 00:19:25,019
we realize there's not something about

414
00:19:30,499 --> 00:19:28,169
me that's broken but there are things

415
00:19:32,869 --> 00:19:30,509
about my body and my mind that need

416
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:32,879
fixing and that do feel broken it's up

417
00:19:40,639 --> 00:19:36,960
it's a radical kind of reorientation

418
00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:40,649
when I work with people and I'll tell

419
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:43,529
you a clinical story I was working with

420
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:45,840
a woman who came to me with severe

421
00:19:51,529 --> 00:19:48,690
depression some years ago and she had

422
00:19:54,889 --> 00:19:51,539
been through many forms of psychiatry

423
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:54,899
and medical medicinal interventions

424
00:20:01,249 --> 00:19:57,450
nothing had worked with her depression

425
00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:01,259
and I started by asking her would you be

426
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:04,169
willing to make an experiment and let me

427
00:20:09,859 --> 00:20:06,210
try something with you and she said okay

428
00:20:11,989 --> 00:20:09,869
so I ran her through this very simple

429
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:11,999
protocol where I'm introducing her to

430
00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:13,919
this but I think of within ourselves

431
00:20:19,460 --> 00:20:15,809
that's always whole and never been

432
00:20:21,739 --> 00:20:19,470
broken and within about 20 minutes she

433
00:20:24,980 --> 00:20:21,749
was sitting in a place within herself

434
00:20:28,909 --> 00:20:24,990
where she felt not broken not something

435
00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:28,919
wrong with me and then we started

436
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:30,600
addressing her depression and what were

437
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,610
the underlying symptoms that might have

438
00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:35,039
been causing or what are the underlying

439
00:20:40,210 --> 00:20:37,289
causes that might have been giving her

440
00:20:43,879 --> 00:20:40,220
rise to her symptoms the thing that was

441
00:20:46,009 --> 00:20:43,889
most interesting to me she came back the

442
00:20:48,049 --> 00:20:46,019
second session and she said I want to

443
00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:48,059
let you know that when I was working

444
00:20:52,220 --> 00:20:49,980
with you in that first session I really

445
00:20:55,369 --> 00:20:52,230
did feel this sense of something within

446
00:20:58,609 --> 00:20:55,379
me that's not broken isn't depressed and

447
00:21:01,399 --> 00:20:58,619
never has been even as I'm feeling this

448
00:21:04,580 --> 00:21:01,409
depression and when I left your office

449
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:04,590
what it did is it gave me hope it

450
00:21:09,470 --> 00:21:07,440
reinstalled a sense of hope in me that I

451
00:21:11,779 --> 00:21:09,480
can actually work and overcome my

452
00:21:13,730 --> 00:21:11,789
depression and we work together very

453
00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:13,740
successfully over about a year and a

454
00:21:19,639 --> 00:21:16,950
half her depression did clear up but we

455
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:19,649
always started each session from this

456
00:21:24,049 --> 00:21:20,970
place of wholeness

457
00:21:27,799 --> 00:21:24,059
really letting her know that she wasn't

458
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:27,809
broken she wasn't depressed but feelings

459
00:21:32,419 --> 00:21:30,450
of depression sensations of depression

460
00:21:35,860 --> 00:21:32,429
were present in her body in her mind

461
00:21:38,330 --> 00:21:35,870
that then we begin to seriously address

462
00:21:41,870 --> 00:21:38,340
it's a very different starting point we

463
00:21:44,930 --> 00:21:41,880
don't work to heal into wholeness we

464
00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:44,940
work from wholeness in whatever healing

465
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:48,809
we need to do fantastic let me kind of

466
00:21:52,669 --> 00:21:50,640
get at this a slightly different way I

467
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:52,679
want to get into kind of philosophy of

468
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:54,690
science a little bit talk a little bit

469
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:56,610
about consciousness and materialism I

470
00:22:01,549 --> 00:21:59,039
was reading an excellent interview you

471
00:22:03,380 --> 00:22:01,559
did with Vikram's it's a of the sutra

472
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:03,390
journal in which you said interestingly

473
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:06,330
the modern materialistic view is being

474
00:22:10,730 --> 00:22:08,490
thoroughly challenged by neuroscience

475
00:22:14,299 --> 00:22:10,740
and quantum research which are revealing

476
00:22:16,850 --> 00:22:14,309
two distinct ways the brain perceives

477
00:22:19,730 --> 00:22:16,860
reality and then you list those two ways

478
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:19,740
one from a dualistic Tom's time space

479
00:22:24,770 --> 00:22:22,650
separate self material perspective what

480
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:24,780
you're really saying is that's science

481
00:22:29,779 --> 00:22:27,690
man that is science as we know it and I

482
00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:29,789
said they're also viewing it from a

483
00:22:38,539 --> 00:22:34,440
non-local no time-space no self this non

484
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:38,549
dual spiritually enlightenment path

485
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:41,610
awakening path that we kind of hear

486
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:43,200
about but a lot of people don't even

487
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:44,970
make that connection I have to say a lot

488
00:22:49,310 --> 00:22:46,890
of people listening to this interview

489
00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:49,320
are not necessarily making the

490
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,289
connection between what they're hearing

491
00:22:58,580 --> 00:22:54,960
about this quantum physics quantum mind

492
00:23:00,260 --> 00:22:58,590
thing and the non-dual thing but I'm

493
00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:00,270
blabbering on here I want to get to that

494
00:23:07,070 --> 00:23:03,000
secondly first I want to challenge that

495
00:23:09,710 --> 00:23:07,080
notion that neuroscience that modern

496
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:09,720
neuroscience is really ready to let go

497
00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:12,960
of materialism man I don't see it at all

498
00:23:20,090 --> 00:23:15,480
and I think sometimes we do a disservice

499
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,100
to folks like the folks who walk into

500
00:23:24,909 --> 00:23:22,559
the office of their local clinical

501
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:24,919
psychologist after experiencing a

502
00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:27,120
spiritually transformative experience

503
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:28,950
and are told here are your meds

504
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:31,110
you're crazy let's stop that voice

505
00:23:34,810 --> 00:23:34,320
inside your head and that they have one

506
00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:34,820
expiry

507
00:23:40,390 --> 00:23:37,310
and then they hear folks like you and

508
00:23:43,150 --> 00:23:40,400
other folks who say wow you know modern

509
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:43,160
medicine is changing in neuroscience is

510
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:45,770
really opening up and and things are

511
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:48,170
looking different no they're they're

512
00:23:53,830 --> 00:23:50,210
really not neuroscience isn't letting go

513
00:23:56,050 --> 00:23:53,840
materialism let's let's take a slightly

514
00:23:58,630 --> 00:23:56,060
different view which is they're not in

515
00:24:01,600 --> 00:23:58,640
opposition and and I'd like to actually

516
00:24:05,140 --> 00:24:01,610
take the word spiritual and which means

517
00:24:07,420 --> 00:24:05,150
simply an inspiration and in in breath

518
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:07,430
an ability to have an insight into

519
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:09,650
something of ourselves that's greater

520
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:12,710
than our limited sense itself but let me

521
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:14,950
put that off to the side what

522
00:24:22,420 --> 00:24:18,110
neuroscience is showing is that there

523
00:24:26,140 --> 00:24:22,430
are two very distinct aspects to the way

524
00:24:29,980 --> 00:24:26,150
we see reality one is our genetic coding

525
00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:29,990
through our five senses and our thinking

526
00:24:36,490 --> 00:24:33,950
mind and our eyes our senses which are

527
00:24:40,570 --> 00:24:36,500
programmed to create a sense of border

528
00:24:43,860 --> 00:24:40,580
boundary separate objects so that when I

529
00:24:46,450 --> 00:24:43,870
look at you or I look at a tree I see a

530
00:24:48,580 --> 00:24:46,460
separate object that has borders and

531
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:48,590
boundaries and limitations that's that

532
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:52,100
is built into us genetically encoded we

533
00:24:59,070 --> 00:24:56,450
cannot not see separate objects but on

534
00:25:01,600 --> 00:24:59,080
the other standpoint we see that

535
00:25:04,330 --> 00:25:01,610
neurosciences is showing that we can

536
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:04,340
also step out of that into another we

537
00:25:09,910 --> 00:25:07,130
might say region of our brain which

538
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:09,920
doesn't know time it doesn't know space

539
00:25:15,610 --> 00:25:12,290
it doesn't have a sense of being

540
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:15,620
localized or bordered or bound read it

541
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:18,890
feels itself as this unbound read

542
00:25:27,700 --> 00:25:23,210
infinite outside of time outside of

543
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:27,710
brokenness and what the protocol like

544
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:31,010
what I teach does is it opens up both

545
00:25:37,270 --> 00:25:33,290
these will call them channels so that

546
00:25:40,330 --> 00:25:37,280
they're equally viable and operating at

547
00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:40,340
the same time most people have collapsed

548
00:25:45,820 --> 00:25:42,470
only into the one side the more

549
00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:45,830
materialistic time-bound limited sense

550
00:25:49,260 --> 00:25:47,260
of self

551
00:25:51,890 --> 00:25:49,270
and they haven't explored this other

552
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:51,900
region which we might say meditation and

553
00:25:58,170 --> 00:25:55,930
different approaches do and what I found

554
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:58,180
in that first experience I would say

555
00:26:04,110 --> 00:26:01,120
with yoga back in 1970 which I didn't

556
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:04,120
understand then and now I do was in that

557
00:26:09,150 --> 00:26:06,610
moment I opened to this other non

558
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:09,160
materialistic side of my brain and

559
00:26:15,090 --> 00:26:12,850
nervous system and had a glimpse of what

560
00:26:17,690 --> 00:26:15,100
I would call stepping out of time

561
00:26:21,660 --> 00:26:17,700
stepping out of space and limitation

562
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:21,670
over the years through my own practices

563
00:26:27,270 --> 00:26:25,570
and also my research into science in a

564
00:26:30,270 --> 00:26:27,280
way I've learned how to integrate these

565
00:26:34,170 --> 00:26:30,280
so they're both now functioning in me I

566
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:34,180
can see separate objects but yet I feel

567
00:26:38,130 --> 00:26:36,730
something else that transcends that

568
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:38,140
sense of separation

569
00:26:49,620 --> 00:26:46,690
what that does for us is it opens a deep

570
00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:49,630
quality where we see in a certain manner

571
00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:52,870
of speaking everything has expressions

572
00:26:59,280 --> 00:26:56,230
of our deeper sense of self or nature so

573
00:27:01,470 --> 00:26:59,290
when I look at a tree I see tree but I

574
00:27:05,130 --> 00:27:01,480
also have a sense that the tree isn't

575
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:05,140
separate from me what that does is it

576
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:08,130
gives rise to great compassion kindness

577
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:11,650
respect for everything that I see

578
00:27:16,650 --> 00:27:13,600
because in a way it's an aspect of

579
00:27:20,250 --> 00:27:16,660
myself so it breeds a deep sense of love

580
00:27:22,260 --> 00:27:20,260
and kindness but it also respects border

581
00:27:26,430 --> 00:27:22,270
and boundary and my ability to

582
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:26,440
differentiate and take actions that

583
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:28,930
sometimes creates a sense of border and

584
00:27:35,820 --> 00:27:33,760
boundary and safety so these practices

585
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:35,830
are actually opening up a whole nother

586
00:27:42,270 --> 00:27:38,880
region of our brain that's also

587
00:27:44,820 --> 00:27:42,280
genetically encoded into us most of our

588
00:27:47,790 --> 00:27:44,830
materialistic approaches of psychology

589
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:47,800
or medicine hasn't really investigated

590
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:49,690
that other side is kind of dismissed it

591
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:54,250
now it's opening and I agree with your

592
00:27:59,740 --> 00:27:57,010
statement that neuroscience on one level

593
00:28:02,200 --> 00:27:59,750
is opening these doors on another level

594
00:28:05,130 --> 00:28:02,210
it's met with a lot of skepticism which

595
00:28:08,770 --> 00:28:05,140
i think is is good doubt and skepticism

596
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,780
help us entertain is this really true

597
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:10,880
and when we keep the science moving

598
00:28:16,270 --> 00:28:12,890
forward so we can really investigate it

599
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:16,280
but at some point I think those who are

600
00:28:21,460 --> 00:28:19,520
skeptical if they're really open are

601
00:28:23,649 --> 00:28:21,470
gonna have to admit there's a whole

602
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:23,659
nother domain here and when they start

603
00:28:29,799 --> 00:28:27,130
to experience it it will shift their

604
00:28:32,590 --> 00:28:29,809
understanding of reality and a much more

605
00:28:35,049 --> 00:28:32,600
comprehensive view where we have both

606
00:28:37,299 --> 00:28:35,059
the dualistic framework separations

607
00:28:40,450 --> 00:28:37,309
separate objects that's the domain of

608
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:40,460
our five senses in mind and this other

609
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:42,710
domain which doesn't know separation

610
00:28:48,460 --> 00:28:45,200
sees everything as an aspect of

611
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:48,470
ourselves and that opens a whole nother

612
00:28:52,210 --> 00:28:50,450
way of being in the world and then bring

613
00:28:55,419 --> 00:28:52,220
these two together and they fit very

614
00:28:57,330 --> 00:28:55,429
nicely in an integrative fashion and

615
00:28:59,919 --> 00:28:57,340
that's why I call my protocol

616
00:29:01,960 --> 00:28:59,929
integrative restoration it integrates

617
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:01,970
these two perspectives in a in a

618
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:05,450
beautiful way that's great and since I

619
00:29:08,919 --> 00:29:07,039
generally agree with what you're saying

620
00:29:12,669 --> 00:29:08,929
I don't think the boundaries are quite

621
00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:12,679
as distinct and firm as we say I think

622
00:29:17,260 --> 00:29:14,990
it's always blurry for all of us but I'm

623
00:29:18,399 --> 00:29:17,270
sure you'd agree with that one thing I

624
00:29:20,190 --> 00:29:18,409
wanted to highlight that you said

625
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:20,200
because I love to rail against the

626
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:22,250
materialistic nonsense because I think

627
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:24,710
it is so we're so a mesh tin it and our

628
00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:27,890
culture that you can't to say enough

629
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:30,470
just how we need to wake up from that

630
00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:33,200
nonsense provable nonsense but I digress

631
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:35,809
again because one of the things you said

632
00:29:39,789 --> 00:29:37,490
that I really want to highlight is less

633
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:39,799
opposition you said you said Alex you

634
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:41,840
know maybe it's not a complete

635
00:29:47,140 --> 00:29:44,450
transformation but we do see less

636
00:29:48,970 --> 00:29:47,150
opposition from neuroscience from

637
00:29:50,260 --> 00:29:48,980
materialistic medicine I think that's a

638
00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:50,270
great way of putting it because I think

639
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:52,630
that's undeniable I think the whole

640
00:29:59,529 --> 00:29:55,760
movement towards you know the quantum

641
00:30:02,970 --> 00:29:59,539
mind pan psychism got a resting-place to

642
00:30:05,799 --> 00:30:02,980
that is in between materialism and a

643
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:05,809
completely consciousness is fundamental

644
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:08,000
kind of perspective is kind of evidence

645
00:30:12,250 --> 00:30:10,370
of that and I I think you highlight some

646
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:12,260
some really good points there let me

647
00:30:15,489 --> 00:30:13,610
come at this as slightly

648
00:30:18,009 --> 00:30:15,499
let me switch over to a completely

649
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:18,019
different topic but one that I just find

650
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:20,210
interesting of course you know uh Rupert

651
00:30:23,649 --> 00:30:20,809
Spira

652
00:30:26,499 --> 00:30:23,659
yes right so a very interesting

653
00:30:28,539 --> 00:30:26,509
interesting fantastic non-dual teacher

654
00:30:29,289 --> 00:30:28,549
as well hope to have him on the show not

655
00:30:32,350 --> 00:30:29,299
too long

656
00:30:34,169 --> 00:30:32,360
he said something it really struck me it

657
00:30:38,109 --> 00:30:34,179
says you know enlightenment is not

658
00:30:39,489 --> 00:30:38,119
exotic India is exotic and I thought

659
00:30:41,229 --> 00:30:39,499
that's such a beautiful statement

660
00:30:43,359 --> 00:30:41,239
because he's saying enlightenment is

661
00:30:44,739 --> 00:30:43,369
really this natural part of unfolding

662
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:44,749
that we can get to from a lot of

663
00:30:49,889 --> 00:30:46,850
different ways and I wonder if we could

664
00:30:52,779 --> 00:30:49,899
say the same thing again as a longtime

665
00:30:54,940 --> 00:30:52,789
practitioner of yoga and yoga student

666
00:30:57,310 --> 00:30:54,950
not anywhere near to the level that you

667
00:31:01,090 --> 00:30:57,320
are but I think we could substitute yoga

668
00:31:04,739 --> 00:31:01,100
in that you know yoga isn't exotic India

669
00:31:08,739 --> 00:31:04,749
is exotic to what extent have we made

670
00:31:11,950 --> 00:31:08,749
these ideas these practices more exotic

671
00:31:16,060 --> 00:31:11,960
than they need to be and is that a

672
00:31:18,099 --> 00:31:16,070
problem that we need to address you you

673
00:31:20,979 --> 00:31:18,109
bring up an excellent point the word

674
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:20,989
enlightenment I think the word spiritual

675
00:31:27,789 --> 00:31:23,690
I think the word yoga they all summon up

676
00:31:31,299 --> 00:31:27,799
a lot of mystical kind of myths that

677
00:31:35,139 --> 00:31:31,309
need to be broken Yoga for me is simply

678
00:31:39,099 --> 00:31:35,149
a series of experiments we might say we

679
00:31:43,739 --> 00:31:39,109
enter into to investigate how we see

680
00:31:47,109 --> 00:31:43,749
things and to in a way inquire into our

681
00:31:50,649 --> 00:31:47,119
conditioning that makes us see with

682
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:50,659
often blinders or or in a very limited

683
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:52,850
way you know if we take the word

684
00:31:59,200 --> 00:31:56,450
enlightenment and light and mint mm-hm

685
00:32:03,720 --> 00:31:59,210
we're just learning to shed light on how

686
00:32:06,879 --> 00:32:03,730
our conditioning has boxed us in and

687
00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:06,889
we're learning to see things that

688
00:32:13,499 --> 00:32:09,710
otherwise we're not aware of because of

689
00:32:19,690 --> 00:32:13,509
our conditioned way we see things so

690
00:32:23,919 --> 00:32:19,700
yoga we might say meditation is simply a

691
00:32:26,620 --> 00:32:23,929
series of ways we inquire into our

692
00:32:29,140 --> 00:32:26,630
conditioning the way we've been

693
00:32:31,810 --> 00:32:29,150
conditioned to see reality in a certain

694
00:32:35,890 --> 00:32:31,820
way and it helps break our conditioning

695
00:32:37,330 --> 00:32:35,900
so we see things afresh we might say so

696
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:37,340
yeah I agree

697
00:32:44,710 --> 00:32:41,930
this aspect of India is exotic but yoga

698
00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:44,720
to me is just a series of simple

699
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:47,630
inquiries meditation simple inquiries

700
00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:50,080
that enlighten us it brings new

701
00:32:54,730 --> 00:32:51,980
understandings that we didn't have

702
00:32:59,320 --> 00:32:54,740
before you know the other thing I think

703
00:33:01,030 --> 00:32:59,330
it points to is this often heard quote

704
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:01,040
you know every great cause begins as a

705
00:33:04,780 --> 00:33:02,510
movement becomes a business and

706
00:33:07,420 --> 00:33:04,790
eventually degrades into a racket and I

707
00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:07,430
think we've all experienced that along

708
00:33:13,090 --> 00:33:10,760
the spiritual path as well as along the

709
00:33:16,780 --> 00:33:13,100
just self-development self-improvement

710
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:16,790
path how do we avoid that how do you

711
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:18,530
avoid that do you have any concerns

712
00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:24,710
about that I'm I'm glad I I'm a I'm a

713
00:33:31,660 --> 00:33:28,340
pragmatic optimist I know in the end it

714
00:33:36,550 --> 00:33:31,670
will be overcome and pragmatically I

715
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:36,560
know it takes time you know you say it

716
00:33:42,550 --> 00:33:40,070
can degenerate into a business the

717
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:42,560
beauty that I see about us as human

718
00:33:49,210 --> 00:33:46,010
beings is we have an inner compass when

719
00:33:52,830 --> 00:33:49,220
we begin to go away from a truth

720
00:33:55,810 --> 00:33:52,840
something that's really a reality

721
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:55,820
something in us starts to feel

722
00:34:02,290 --> 00:33:58,130
something's not right here

723
00:34:05,650 --> 00:34:02,300
and we can go away you know far away and

724
00:34:08,050 --> 00:34:05,660
say where yoga degenerates into a

725
00:34:10,659 --> 00:34:08,060
business and whatever however you are

726
00:34:12,399 --> 00:34:10,669
saying it but as we go more and more in

727
00:34:14,590 --> 00:34:12,409
that way we're gonna feel a split within

728
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:14,600
ourselves something about that doesn't

729
00:34:20,649 --> 00:34:17,330
feel right and eventually my optimist

730
00:34:23,139 --> 00:34:20,659
says that's going to help reorient us

731
00:34:26,770 --> 00:34:23,149
and bring us back to the path that we

732
00:34:29,409 --> 00:34:26,780
may have gone away from so I've been

733
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:29,419
doing yoga for the last 46 years

734
00:34:35,770 --> 00:34:32,570
meditating for the last 46 years at

735
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:35,780
first yoga helped open me to great

736
00:34:40,380 --> 00:34:37,330
insights and

737
00:34:42,649 --> 00:34:40,390
I would say I began to stray more into

738
00:34:45,630 --> 00:34:42,659
the more materialist aspects of it and

739
00:34:47,580 --> 00:34:45,640
the more I did that something within me

740
00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:47,590
just didn't feel right and I kept

741
00:34:50,909 --> 00:34:49,270
following what is it about what's

742
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:50,919
happening that doesn't feel right and it

743
00:34:55,290 --> 00:34:52,810
kept bringing me back to what I will

744
00:34:59,660 --> 00:34:55,300
call a deeper truth and a deeper

745
00:35:02,810 --> 00:34:59,670
understanding so yeah everything

746
00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:02,820
degenerates eventually but

747
00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:05,230
optimistically I hold that eventually

748
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:08,920
will always come back because we can

749
00:35:14,970 --> 00:35:10,930
only stray away from the ground of truth

750
00:35:19,310 --> 00:35:14,980
so far we see this in the world today

751
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:19,320
all these acts of racism violence hatred

752
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:24,010
reactionary movements that's for me

753
00:35:28,610 --> 00:35:26,050
people who are separating and going

754
00:35:31,620 --> 00:35:28,620
farther and farther away from themselves

755
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:31,630
we can only go so far and then we'll

756
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:33,850
start that return journey and those of

757
00:35:37,830 --> 00:35:35,650
us who are holding that deeper

758
00:35:43,620 --> 00:35:37,840
understanding because we we went away

759
00:35:47,130 --> 00:35:43,630
and came back we now are able to we're

760
00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:47,140
now able to you know see a deeper truth

761
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:49,260
here and hopefully help those who are

762
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:52,240
going off the path come back in their

763
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:56,530
own right sense of self that's let's go

764
00:36:00,060 --> 00:35:57,760
some and I have no disagree with

765
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:00,070
anything you're saying it let me kind of

766
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:02,290
hit you with one more thing that does

767
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:04,810
always kind of not me a little bit in

768
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:07,210
terms of the non-dual community and that

769
00:36:14,970 --> 00:36:10,750
is you know there's a lot of people who

770
00:36:18,060 --> 00:36:14,980
on one hand want to agree an experience

771
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:18,070
of an agreement a synergy with what

772
00:36:22,980 --> 00:36:20,410
you're saying and at the same time have

773
00:36:26,580 --> 00:36:22,990
this sense that you're just kind of

774
00:36:28,770 --> 00:36:26,590
glossing over a lot of life I mean a lot

775
00:36:32,730 --> 00:36:28,780
of ordinary life experience like love

776
00:36:35,190 --> 00:36:32,740
and family and loss and grief and also

777
00:36:37,890 --> 00:36:35,200
some pretty significant non ordinary

778
00:36:40,590 --> 00:36:37,900
life experience near-death experience

779
00:36:43,230 --> 00:36:40,600
where people have these tremendous just

780
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:43,240
out-of-body experiences and they have

781
00:36:46,470 --> 00:36:45,010
after death communication whether it's

782
00:36:49,140 --> 00:36:46,480
part of a near-death experience or not

783
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:49,150
or they do some sort of Auto Body astral

784
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:51,130
challenger abduction

785
00:36:54,020 --> 00:36:52,510
variants which I think you have to take

786
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:54,030
seriously if you really study it

787
00:36:59,850 --> 00:36:56,320
psychedelics the list goes on and on and

788
00:37:03,540 --> 00:36:59,860
on and I don't think you're saying that

789
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:03,550
we have to ignore that or minimize that

790
00:37:09,210 --> 00:37:06,880
but do you understand I think the

791
00:37:13,470 --> 00:37:09,220
feeling that some people get that the

792
00:37:15,390 --> 00:37:13,480
simplicity of the non-dual sit down you

793
00:37:16,890 --> 00:37:15,400
know there's a nothingness their return

794
00:37:18,510 --> 00:37:16,900
to the seat of consciousness and

795
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:18,520
everything falls back into that

796
00:37:27,590 --> 00:37:23,050
consciousness glosses over in a way a

797
00:37:29,820 --> 00:37:27,600
lot of what people are finding most

798
00:37:31,830 --> 00:37:29,830
relevant the stuff that's stirring up

799
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:31,840
the most for them in their life do you

800
00:37:36,030 --> 00:37:33,250
have a sense for what I'm talking about

801
00:37:39,810 --> 00:37:36,040
and can you address that yeah I think

802
00:37:42,060 --> 00:37:39,820
their basic movements here one is we

803
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:42,070
find ourselves in a moment in our life

804
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:44,110
where our life isn't working

805
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:47,440
something has failed us we're feeling a

806
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:50,410
sense sometimes of a helplessness a

807
00:37:54,810 --> 00:37:52,690
hopelessness some inner collapse it

808
00:37:59,580 --> 00:37:54,820
might come as an anxiety and depression

809
00:38:02,370 --> 00:37:59,590
whatever and we try all sorts of ways to

810
00:38:05,180 --> 00:38:02,380
go through it and ultimately we may take

811
00:38:07,050 --> 00:38:05,190
up meditation the practices of yoga the

812
00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:07,060
practices that we're talking about here

813
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:10,030
and there's a moment where we open to

814
00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:12,250
this other realm place which we might

815
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:17,110
say is timeless and spacious and open

816
00:38:23,790 --> 00:38:20,530
and we sit in that realm for awhile but

817
00:38:26,610 --> 00:38:23,800
then what happens is it brings us back

818
00:38:28,830 --> 00:38:26,620
into life itself where we enter into

819
00:38:32,370 --> 00:38:28,840
these movements as you're talking about

820
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:32,380
which is relationship how do we move

821
00:38:38,850 --> 00:38:36,640
this in every domain of our life we come

822
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:38,860
back and I think what happens is we

823
00:38:42,740 --> 00:38:40,510
start to really become a fully

824
00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:42,750
functional human being where we're

825
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:45,940
friends with our emotions we're friends

826
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:48,400
with our thoughts we understand these

827
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:51,610
movements of sadness grief we're not

828
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:53,410
trying to negate them we're not trying

829
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:54,850
to transcend them we're actually

830
00:38:59,940 --> 00:38:57,130
grounding more deeply into our basic

831
00:39:02,580 --> 00:38:59,950
humanists we're not trying to trust

832
00:39:03,660 --> 00:39:02,590
transcend them can you pick up on that a

833
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:03,670
little bit I think that

834
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:05,680
it's key because especially if I've had

835
00:39:09,930 --> 00:39:07,930
a rather dramatic let's have had a

836
00:39:12,780 --> 00:39:09,940
spiritually transformative experience

837
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:12,790
that it's impossible for me to get past

838
00:39:19,110 --> 00:39:16,530
I saw Jesus I put my hands where his

839
00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:19,120
wounds are you know that that also

840
00:39:25,580 --> 00:39:22,870
becomes a can become somewhat of a block

841
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:25,590
even though it propelled me from zero to

842
00:39:32,820 --> 00:39:28,930
fifty it also then becomes I can't get

843
00:39:34,860 --> 00:39:32,830
past that you know when we have an

844
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:34,870
experience like that it takes time to

845
00:39:39,870 --> 00:39:37,690
integrate it but what it's really asking

846
00:39:43,050 --> 00:39:39,880
us and if you look at the teachings of

847
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:43,060
Jesus he's asking you to come back into

848
00:39:49,770 --> 00:39:46,170
the world love your neighbor as yourself

849
00:39:53,790 --> 00:39:49,780
bring love back into our relationships

850
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:53,800
he's also not saying don't dismiss the

851
00:39:58,980 --> 00:39:55,890
violence that are around us and

852
00:40:01,890 --> 00:39:58,990
confronted but confronted not from

853
00:40:04,050 --> 00:40:01,900
that's the enemy over there but that is

854
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:04,060
an aspect of ourselves that's kind of

855
00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:09,010
gone into separation and gone away from

856
00:40:13,380 --> 00:40:10,720
themselves so we're trying to actually

857
00:40:15,630 --> 00:40:13,390
move into the world in a deeper grounded

858
00:40:20,130 --> 00:40:15,640
sense of love and right action right

859
00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:20,140
speech right thought so what I see is as

860
00:40:25,530 --> 00:40:22,990
I've walked this path yeah there have

861
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:25,540
been moments of deep transcendence where

862
00:40:32,580 --> 00:40:28,650
I've had to sit in those experiences

863
00:40:34,890 --> 00:40:32,590
hanging out with Jesus hanging out in a

864
00:40:37,890 --> 00:40:34,900
world that you call formless or empty

865
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:37,900
but then the real movement of meditation

866
00:40:44,130 --> 00:40:41,290
is to come back into the world re ground

867
00:40:46,170 --> 00:40:44,140
back into all the different emotions and

868
00:40:49,350 --> 00:40:46,180
feelings that I have as a human being

869
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:49,360
and how now do I take that into my

870
00:40:57,750 --> 00:40:51,910
relationships where my relationships now

871
00:41:01,560 --> 00:40:57,760
deepen and are much more what should I

872
00:41:03,210 --> 00:41:01,570
say much more authentic and real than

873
00:41:05,250 --> 00:41:03,220
they may have been before when I was

874
00:41:08,310 --> 00:41:05,260
just caught in certain condition beliefs

875
00:41:11,220 --> 00:41:08,320
so if meditation is really working we're

876
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:11,230
becoming deeper more profound more

877
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:14,560
loving and kind human beings not trapped

878
00:41:18,730 --> 00:41:16,880
in mystical experiences

879
00:41:22,269 --> 00:41:18,740
what do you mean trapped in mystical

880
00:41:24,220 --> 00:41:22,279
experience my joke is in the 60s many of

881
00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:24,230
us tried to check into what I call the

882
00:41:30,789 --> 00:41:28,609
ohm hotel we tried to transcend our

883
00:41:33,339 --> 00:41:30,799
basic humanists and emotions of anger

884
00:41:35,799 --> 00:41:33,349
and sadness and grief and what we found

885
00:41:37,420 --> 00:41:35,809
was in the 80s and 90s we had to come

886
00:41:40,450 --> 00:41:37,430
back into the world we had to ground

887
00:41:42,279 --> 00:41:40,460
back into living in the world ground

888
00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:42,289
back into our jobs we had to make a

889
00:41:48,789 --> 00:41:45,950
living we we've got to bring food to the

890
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:48,799
table and why why to what to what extent

891
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:50,930
most of us seemed way over engaged in

892
00:41:58,660 --> 00:41:56,480
all that way over engaged in that making

893
00:42:00,730 --> 00:41:58,670
money and getting on our iPhone and

894
00:42:02,620 --> 00:42:00,740
making sure that our emails are up to

895
00:42:05,890 --> 00:42:02,630
date and all the rest of that stuff I

896
00:42:08,349 --> 00:42:05,900
think of course but now we're talking

897
00:42:10,690 --> 00:42:08,359
about balance and harmony if we do too

898
00:42:13,930 --> 00:42:10,700
much of the materialistic striving for

899
00:42:15,759 --> 00:42:13,940
money striving for Fame we will start to

900
00:42:19,690 --> 00:42:15,769
feel something in ourself that isn't

901
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:19,700
working the practices of meditation help

902
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:22,640
us look at what isn't working rebalance

903
00:42:26,109 --> 00:42:24,410
and then you know we have to come back

904
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:26,119
we still have to put food on the table

905
00:42:34,049 --> 00:42:28,730
we still have to have clothes on our

906
00:42:36,670 --> 00:42:34,059
back but now it's more from a sense of

907
00:42:39,999 --> 00:42:36,680
harmony in the sense that we're making

908
00:42:43,089 --> 00:42:40,009
enough money that helps us move forward

909
00:42:44,559 --> 00:42:43,099
in life but we're doing it in a way that

910
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:44,569
also we're looking at the people around

911
00:42:49,660 --> 00:42:46,730
us as our brothers and sisters how do I

912
00:42:52,089 --> 00:42:49,670
help them when they're struggling so

913
00:42:55,390 --> 00:42:52,099
it's no longer just about me it's about

914
00:42:57,279 --> 00:42:55,400
us and I think that materialistic view

915
00:43:00,730 --> 00:42:57,289
and striving for fame and fortune and

916
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:00,740
money is all about me when that me has

917
00:43:07,529 --> 00:43:02,690
really seemed through it becomes about

918
00:43:09,970 --> 00:43:07,539
us we are a integrated community here

919
00:43:14,499 --> 00:43:09,980
like-minded people around the world

920
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:14,509
which we're trying to help not just be

921
00:43:21,069 --> 00:43:17,930
out for myself only Richard tell folks a

922
00:43:23,589 --> 00:43:21,079
little bit more about what you do how

923
00:43:26,259 --> 00:43:23,599
people might run into you on the trail

924
00:43:26,980 --> 00:43:26,269
maybe find some of this training can

925
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:26,990
they find it

926
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:30,770
your seminars through some

927
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:32,090
the other teachers that you've taught

928
00:43:36,610 --> 00:43:34,010
how do people go about if they're gonna

929
00:43:39,940 --> 00:43:36,620
listen to this and if it you know has

930
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:39,950
that moment of resonation with them then

931
00:43:45,220 --> 00:43:41,690
they want to know more how do they go

932
00:43:50,950 --> 00:43:45,230
about it I think the first part is to go

933
00:43:54,130 --> 00:43:50,960
to the website WWI rest us and they'll

934
00:43:56,050 --> 00:43:54,140
find workshops retreats trainings that I

935
00:44:01,390 --> 00:43:56,060
and my teachers are doing around the

936
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:01,400
world we also have literature CDs I've

937
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:03,920
recently written a book called the IRS

938
00:44:06,670 --> 00:44:05,510
program for healing post-traumatic

939
00:44:09,850 --> 00:44:06,680
stress

940
00:44:11,950 --> 00:44:09,860
I've got CDs on how to get a restful

941
00:44:13,630 --> 00:44:11,960
night's sleep because many of the

942
00:44:16,780 --> 00:44:13,640
veterans that we're working with all the

943
00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:16,790
way back to Vietnam Korean and even a

944
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:18,710
few World War two they said as they do

945
00:44:26,020 --> 00:44:22,250
the IRS program they've gotten the first

946
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:26,030
good night's sleep since they Vietnam so

947
00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:28,640
they can go to the website I rest dot us

948
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:31,310
where they'll find plenty of portals

949
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:34,250
into all of our offerings both here in

950
00:44:38,770 --> 00:44:36,370
the United States and around the world

951
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,780
great our guests again has been dr.

952
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:40,640
Richard Miller it's been fantastic

953
00:44:46,890 --> 00:44:42,530
having you on thanks again so much

954
00:44:54,570 --> 00:44:46,900
Richard thank you Alex okay man that's

955
00:44:57,250 --> 00:44:54,580
it you're great you know I I was so I

956
00:44:59,500 --> 00:44:57,260
woke up this morning after all of this

957
00:45:04,240 --> 00:44:59,510
Orlando Fiasco and I wrote a little

958
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:04,250
piece on Facebook just about you know

959
00:45:12,130 --> 00:45:08,210
we've got to get over this racism and

960
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:12,140
hatred and vitriolic diatribes that are

961
00:45:16,750 --> 00:45:14,090
going and just come back to see each

962
00:45:19,780 --> 00:45:16,760
other's brothers and sisters my god how

963
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:19,790
far do we have to go away from one

964
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:22,130
another before we finally realize we

965
00:45:25,540 --> 00:45:23,330
need to come back

966
00:45:27,010 --> 00:45:25,550
geez boy I don't I don't know see that's

967
00:45:28,810 --> 00:45:27,020
the part and that if we just kind of

968
00:45:31,390 --> 00:45:28,820
touch down I don't I don't know if I

969
00:45:34,450 --> 00:45:31,400
agree with that I mean you know people

970
00:45:36,130 --> 00:45:34,460
rail against I mean I don't know what's

971
00:45:37,930 --> 00:45:36,140
gonna happen to Orlando how it turns out

972
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:37,940
to be but if the script is like all the

973
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:39,680
other scripts it's going to turn out to

974
00:45:46,450 --> 00:45:44,330
be gonna have links to government

975
00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:46,460
run operations that are trying to

976
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:48,710
undermine the Second Amendment and I

977
00:45:53,410 --> 00:45:51,290
have say that I've never owned a gun in

978
00:45:55,150 --> 00:45:53,420
my life I've only shot a gun one time

979
00:45:57,550 --> 00:45:55,160
when I was in Alaska is that in this

980
00:45:59,890 --> 00:45:57,560
kind of a prank but there are other

981
00:46:02,620 --> 00:45:59,900
forces at play you know not to get

982
00:46:05,140 --> 00:46:02,630
political but Isis is a al Qaeda

983
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:05,150
operation that is funded by the United

984
00:46:10,570 --> 00:46:08,330
States I mean we do we are the axis of

985
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:10,580
evil in the world yeah and we do a lot

986
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:11,930
of wonderful things too and who knows

987
00:46:15,790 --> 00:46:14,090
what would fill that if we weren't there

988
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:15,800
whether it be Russia or China be a lot

989
00:46:22,060 --> 00:46:18,110
worse but I don't know I mean I think

990
00:46:26,260 --> 00:46:22,070
were word pushed into off accepting

991
00:46:28,660 --> 00:46:26,270
these kind of simplistic ideas about how

992
00:46:30,310 --> 00:46:28,670
the world works and I think that's a

993
00:46:31,990 --> 00:46:30,320
deeper part of what the non-dual

994
00:46:33,580 --> 00:46:32,000
community really has to do is say I

995
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:33,590
don't have an answer for that

996
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:36,560
I don't know I don't know how these

997
00:46:42,070 --> 00:46:39,110
forces interact and but I just know my

998
00:46:44,410 --> 00:46:42,080
personal transformation is this my

999
00:46:46,570 --> 00:46:44,420
personal approach for being more loving

1000
00:46:49,050 --> 00:46:46,580
for being more connecting for healing

1001
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:49,060
myself and the people around me is this

1002
00:46:52,810 --> 00:46:51,410
I'm real uncomfortable when we start

1003
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:52,820
talking about Orlando because I don't

1004
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:54,050
know what the happened in Orlando

1005
00:47:00,730 --> 00:46:57,520
and I'm CIA service is like Orlando

1006
00:47:02,890 --> 00:47:00,740
pushes me back to what's my garden that

1007
00:47:06,130 --> 00:47:02,900
I've been given to attend am I really

1008
00:47:08,050 --> 00:47:06,140
tending it and yes everybody has I'm

1009
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:08,060
convinced their own garden if they would

1010
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:10,970
only tend it all these aspects wouldn't

1011
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:13,130
be happening so all that does for me is

1012
00:47:19,390 --> 00:47:16,850
it gets me more more engaged in tending

1013
00:47:21,370 --> 00:47:19,400
the garden I've been I've been given so

1014
00:47:23,860 --> 00:47:21,380
working with the homeless working with

1015
00:47:26,740 --> 00:47:23,870
the women who've been trafficked working

1016
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:26,750
with the soldiers and working with my my

1017
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:30,890
neighbors and my my family so yeah I

1018
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:33,920
think it forces me back into am I doing

1019
00:47:38,980 --> 00:47:36,410
all that I can with the tools that I've

1020
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:38,990
been given by life I wish everybody

1021
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:41,810
would just tend their own garden and we

1022
00:47:47,950 --> 00:47:43,760
wouldn't be seeing all this crap going

1023
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:47,960
on I agree with you okay well thanks

1024
00:47:51,070 --> 00:47:49,490
again so much Richard I really

1025
00:47:52,570 --> 00:47:51,080
appreciate everything that you're doing

1026
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:52,580
and I will definitely send you a link

1027
00:47:56,020 --> 00:47:54,410
great and I get this thing up in a great

1028
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:56,030
month

1029
00:47:59,810 --> 00:47:57,930
thanks again to Richard Miller for

1030
00:48:01,820 --> 00:47:59,820
joining me today on skeptic oh one

1031
00:48:04,010 --> 00:48:01,830
question to tee up from this interview

1032
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:04,020
before I get to Richard's guided

1033
00:48:09,110 --> 00:48:06,330
meditation which is going to immediately

1034
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:09,120
follow this outro so do stick around for

1035
00:48:12,530 --> 00:48:09,510
that

1036
00:48:15,590 --> 00:48:12,540
why does Richard Miller's meditation

1037
00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:15,600
protocol work why specifically do you

1038
00:48:22,220 --> 00:48:19,020
think this protocol is so effective I

1039
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:22,230
have some definite strong ideas that are

1040
00:48:26,660 --> 00:48:24,210
my answer to that question but I'd love

1041
00:48:28,100 --> 00:48:26,670
to hear what you think the place to do

1042
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:28,110
it of course is through the sceptical

1043
00:48:31,460 --> 00:48:29,850
website from there you can bounce on

1044
00:48:33,890 --> 00:48:31,470
over to forum and join a conversation

1045
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:33,900
leave a Facebook message or a facebook

1046
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,480
comment or just drop me an email the

1047
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:38,400
important thing is that you connect with

1048
00:48:42,740 --> 00:48:40,170
me connect with the show connect with

1049
00:48:45,710 --> 00:48:42,750
people who are interested in these ideas

1050
00:48:48,460 --> 00:48:45,720
because let's face it it's sometimes

1051
00:48:51,380 --> 00:48:48,470
hard to walk this path in the busy

1052
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:51,390
materialistic world we live in so

1053
00:48:57,050 --> 00:48:54,450
joining together sharing these ideas

1054
00:48:59,480 --> 00:48:57,060
bolstering each other might make it just

1055
00:49:01,790 --> 00:48:59,490
a little bit easier well that's going to

1056
00:49:04,250 --> 00:49:01,800
do it for this episode of kept Co I have

1057
00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:04,260
some good ones coming up please stay

1058
00:49:10,190 --> 00:49:07,020
with me for all of that until next time

1059
00:49:23,380 --> 00:49:10,200
take care and now do stick around for

1060
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:26,230
take a moment

1061
00:49:32,349 --> 00:49:28,730
you're not yet ready to go on to the

1062
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:32,359
next thing of doing and you're just

1063
00:49:48,930 --> 00:49:35,839
sitting here in a delightful sense of

1064
00:50:04,750 --> 00:49:53,130
so just take a moment open to this felt

1065
00:50:19,950 --> 00:50:07,540
for some of us that even maybe the felt

1066
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,180
and as

1067
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:28,210
you're moving into being

1068
00:50:53,870 --> 00:50:31,150
can you make the shift from being in

1069
00:51:05,130 --> 00:50:57,680
and as being I'd like to ask you five

1070
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:10,650
so has being how would you describe your

1071
00:51:25,329 --> 00:51:21,980
you're an outermost border

1072
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:27,920
their innermost

1073
00:51:38,660 --> 00:51:35,830
feel into that for a few moments

1074
00:52:10,989 --> 00:51:38,670
how would I describe

1075
00:52:18,289 --> 00:52:16,039
in the second inquiry as being when

1076
00:52:26,529 --> 00:52:18,299
you're just being what's happening to

1077
00:52:26,539 --> 00:52:58,280
when you're just feeling being

1078
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:00,740
and so we might ask when you're just

1079
00:53:30,690 --> 00:53:05,280
being what time is it what's your

1080
00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:33,580
so come back to being

1081
00:53:41,370 --> 00:53:38,720
and ask yourself as being do I need

1082
00:54:04,190 --> 00:53:43,589
acquiring it

1083
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:09,590
do I as being my

1084
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:32,370
for anything

1085
00:54:32,380 --> 00:54:39,600
has me are you unfamiliar

1086
00:54:39,610 --> 00:55:04,980
all your life

1087
00:55:04,990 --> 00:55:10,099
and the fifth inquiry